[00:00:05] Hello, my name is Sally Moriarty-Flask. Welcome to: From His Word to Our Hearts, my weekly Bible study podcast.
[00:00:13] Together we will explore the readings to be proclaimed at the Catholic Mass on Sunday, August 17, 2025, the 20th Sunday in Ordinary Time.
[00:00:23] This week's episode is entitled: Who Will Start the Fire?
And in these readings, we will come to better understand the purpose of fire in Jesus’ mission here on Earth. As we journey through the readings this week, consider the following:
In the Gospel, Jesus will tell us that he came to bring division and cast fire upon the earth, which runs counter to the kind and gentle Savior we so often like to picture. But we forget that fire purifies, it ignites our passions and our creativity, it sparks positive change, and it inspires us to make the world a better place. Isn't that the type of fire we should all be willing to start?
So, let's begin: In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
[00:01:18] Heavenly Father, we praise you and we thank you for the fire of your love which cleanses and purifies us. Help us to ignite the type of fire in our communities that brings about positive change and makes our world a better place. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
[00:01:40] Now that we've opened our hearts in prayer, let's listen to what God is telling us in the Scriptures.
Our Gospel this week is from Luke 12: 49-53.
[00:01:52] “[Jesus said to his disciples:] ‘I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.’”
[00:02:39] This week's passage picks up right where last week's passage left off.
[00:02:45] Remember last week we heard the Parable of the Rich Fool who built even bigger barns to store up even more treasure on earth rather than preparing for heaven. At the end of that passage, Jesus told his disciples - and us - that his followers will be held to a higher standard.
[00:03:05] That is the setting in which we join the narrative this week. Jesus begins this week's Gospel with a pretty disturbing statement… but it's disturbing because we don't understand it properly, so let's rectify that…
“[Jesus said to his disciples:] ‘I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled!’”
[00:03:30] This is a surprisingly complex statement with lots of layers.
[00:03:36] Jesus does primarily mean the fire of judgment here, since for the past couple of weeks he has been teaching the crowds specifically about being prepared for judgment, and that aligns with the way we typically think of fire.
[00:03:52] But looking at fire only in that way limits our understanding. So instead, we need to expand our knowledge of fire… because fire can be beneficial. Forest fires, for instance, we tend to think of them as only being destructive, but they can clear out dead and decaying plant matter, returning nutrients to the soil and creating space for new growth. In fact, there are some species of trees that even require their seeds to experience fire in order for them to be able to germinate. And John the Baptist can also help us with expanding our understanding of fire.
[00:04:31] In Luke 3, John says: “I baptize you with water, one mightier than I is coming; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”
[00:04:43] The fire that John is talking about there is the fire of divine love. In the Bible, fire can represent many things: purification, passion (meaning strong emotions), transformation, and judgment; but it can also be the light of Christ and, as John the Baptist intended, the fire of God's love.
[00:05:08] Nor can we forget that the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles in the Upper Room as tongues of fire on Pentecost.
[00:05:17] Each of those different concepts of fire, of what fire means, play a part in what Jesus is talking about when he talks about judgment. And that is exactly what he has been teaching for the past couple of weeks.
[00:05:36] He goes on…
“I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!”
[00:05:45] The baptism Jesus means here is his Death on the Cross and until that takes place, he is constrained. Meaning that there are things he is constrained from accomplishing in his current Incarnation.
[00:06:02] After his Passion and Death, after his Resurrection, after his Ascension, he will be free to do a whole host of things once he returns to the Father in heaven… things like sending the Holy Spirit!
“Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth?”
We have to be careful about that statement. Our knee-jerk response is often… well, yes, you did come to bring peace.
[00:06:31] But if we look at Jesus in only that way, we are putting limits on him ourselves. We are trying to tame God and make him our harmless little pet Savior who just does nice things for us.
[00:06:50] That is a mistake, and it is a common one. I know I've said in the past that too many times mankind tries to make God into our image because we think that will help us better understand him. We assign human qualities to God… we make him like us so that we can relate to him better. And this is one of those times when it's easy to think like that. However, we really need to keep in mind that at this point in time in the Gospel, Jesus is still on his way to Jerusalem… we are still in the Travel Narrative of Luke's Gospel. At this point, Jesus is not trying to comfort his disciples as he will do at the Last Supper in John 14 when he says: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you.” No! No, no, no!
[00:07:49] At this point in time, Jesus is still trying to enflame those strong, passionate emotions that lie within the Apostles’ hearts so that they will become better leaders themselves when the time comes.
Bishop Robert Barron wrote that “there is no contradiction between God's gentleness and God's fierceness, they are both expressions of his love.” In other words, God is gentle and loving, yes, but his love is infinitely fierce.
[00:08:32] Jesus goes on…
“No, I tell you, but rather division;”
It is so difficult for us to perceive Jesus in this way. This is not what we expect to hear from him, and it makes us uncomfortable. But what Jesus is really saying to his followers is that discipleship has to outweigh everything else… even the bonds of friendship or family. Everything!
[00:08:59] Jesus should be more important to his followers than anyone or anything else. Then he gives some specific examples which can also make us quite uncomfortable.
“henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and
daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
By listing those specific relationships, Jesus is telling his disciples that no human bond will be spared. That they must be prepared for division - because it will come! Bonds of family and friendship will break down when the choice to follow Jesus is not unanimous… in any group. And that did happen in the early Church as Jews converted to Christianity. We can also hear in Jesus’ words an echo of Micah 7, when the prophet says: “put no trust in a neighbor, have no confidence in a friend, for the son treats the father with contempt, the daughter rises up against her mother, the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.” For those of us who are still uncomfortable with this passage, rest assured that Jesus is not suggesting that we pick fights with other members of our family… we can do that well enough on our own. He is saying, however, that we must be prepared to defend the Gospel, to defend our faith in the Gospel, no matter who or what opposes us.
[00:10:49] That is precisely the type of fire Jesus wanted to kindle within the hearts of his disciples, and the type of fire Jesus wants to kindle within our hearts. And if that makes us better people, if that makes the world a better place, isn't that the type of fire we should all be willing to start?
[00:11:13] That takes us to our First Reading which is from Jeremiah 38: 4-6, 8-10.
[00:11:24] “[In those days,] the princes said to the king, ‘Let [Jeremiah] be put to death, for he is weakening the hands of the soldiers who are left in this city, and the hands of all the people, by speaking such words to them. For this man is not seeking the welfare of this people, but their harm.’ King Zedeki’ah said, ‘Behold, he is in your hands; for the king can do nothing against you.’ So they took Jeremiah and cast him into the cistern of Malachi’ah the king's son, which was in the court of the guard, letting Jeremiah down by ropes. And there was no water in the cistern, but only mire, and Jeremiah sank in the mire. E’bed-mel’ech 1 went from the king's house and said to the king, ‘My lord the king, these men have done evil in all that they did to Jeremiah the prophet by casting him into the cistern; and he will die there of hunger, for there is no bread left in the city.’ Then the king commanded
E’bed-mel’ech, the Ethiopian, ‘Take three men with you from here, and lift Jeremiah the prophet out of the cistern before he dies.’”
[00:12:36] Just like our passage from the Gospel, this is another very uncomfortable passage for us to hear.
[00:12:44] Jeremiah is one of the four Major Prophets, along with Ezekiel, Isaiah and Daniel; he was a prophet in the Southern Kingdom of Judah during the late 7th and early 6th centuries BC.
[00:12:57] The beginning of his book describes God's call of Jeremiah, but let's face it - he didn't want the job! He offered God a number of excuses, but God accepted none of them and assured Jeremiah that he would tell him where to go and what to say.
[00:13:15] We also need to understand that Jeremiah lived in a time of tremendous political upheaval. The Northern Kingdom of Israel had been overrun by the Assyrians, and a number of its citizens taken into exile. Then the kingdom of Assyria went into decline, just as the Babylonians were emerging as the next regional superpower. At that time, the people in the Southern Kingdom of Judah were growing more and more blatant in their infidelity to the Covenant. Jeremiah tried his best to convince the people and King Zedekiah that they needed to repent and be faithful to the Covenant… because if they didn't, then what happened to the Northern Kingdom of Israel might very well happen to the Southern Kingdom of Judah. Unfortunately, the people were convinced that the walls of the city of Jerusalem, the temple within the city of Jerusalem, and the king who also dwelt within the city of Jerusalem, would protect them - that nothing bad would happen to them. Because of that misguided thinking, the people hated poor Jeremiah and refused to listen to his warnings… that is where we join the story. So, let's see what happens…
“[In those days,] the princes said to the king,”
Now as I just said, the king is Zedekiah… and Zedekiah was a terrible king. And saying that these men were princes was a bit of an exaggeration. There were four men who went to the king, and they would be better described as court officials.
[00:15:15] Only one of them was an actual prince. Regardless, those four men said to Zedekiah…
“Let [Jeremiah] be put to death, for he is weakening the hands of the soldiers who are left in this city, and the hands of all the people, by speaking such words to them. For this man is not seeking the welfare of this people, but their harm.”
[00:15:36] Jeremiah was a prophet - his mission was to speak for God, and in speaking for God, he was warning the people that they needed to be faithful to the Covenant, otherwise a terrible fate would befall them. And as I said, nobody wanted to hear that. And that's really at the heart of their statement - that's what these men mean by saying: he's weakening the hands of the soldiers who are left in this city. He's weakening the will of the people when they hear the words that Jeremiah is saying to them. And from these four men's point of view, that is damaging the people rather than making them strong. These men simply don't realize or understand Jeremiah's mission.
And we also have to keep in mind that Jeremiah, in addition to being a prophet, was also one of Zedekiah's court advisors. Yet these four men take it upon themselves to go to Zedekiah and say, in essence… hey, king, public opinion is running high against Jeremiah, so let's get rid of him… and not just get rid of him, but actually put him to death.
[00:16:55] “King Zedeki’ah said, ‘Behold, he is in your hands; for the king can do nothing against you.’”
Zedekiah is, in essence, saying that he is ineffective, that nobody listens to him, and he can't and won't stop them from doing whatever they want. Again, he was a very bad king!
“So they took Jeremiah and cast him into the cistern of Malachi’ah, the king's son, which was in the court of the guard, letting Jeremiah down by ropes. And there was no water in the cistern, but only mire; and Jeremiah sank in the mire.”
When we hear the word mire, we shouldn't think of just a little bit of muck… think of really deep mud or perhaps even quicksand, something into which Jeremiah would sink significantly.
“E’bed-mel’ech”
Who was also an official in the court of King Zedekiah…
“E’bed-mel’ech went from the king's house and said to the king, ‘My lord the king, these men have done evil in all that they did to Jeremiah the prophet by casting him into the cistern; and he will die there of hunger, for there is no bread left in the city.’”
[00:18:09] It speaks volumes about not only the king, but the other court officials as well, that only this one man recognized the plight of Jeremiah, took pity on him, and then confronted King Zedekiah about the situation.
[00:18:29] And when Ebed-melech said: “there is no bread left in the city” he was informing the king that food was becoming scarce now that the city was under siege by the Babylonian army.
“Then the king commanded E’bed-mel’ech, the Ethiopian,”
[00:18:47] Okay, that identification is up for debate, depending on which translation you consult. The NAB translates that as “the Cushite.” The kingdoms of Cush and Ethiopia were close geographically, they were both part of Egypt, and though they were often conflated, Ethiopia was actually a bit south of Cush.
[00:19:12] Either way, he was from somewhere in Egypt. But it's worth noting that there is some debate about his country of origin. Regardless of where he came from, Zedekiah then commanded Ebed-melech:
“Take three men with you from here, and lift Jeremiah the prophet out of the cistern before he dies.”
[00:19:34] Interestingly enough, we learn in the very next verse that Ebed-melech and his three companions raided the king's own storehouse, fashioned ropes out of rags and
worn-out clothes, and then used those makeshift ropes to rescue Jeremiah from the cistern. This passage helps us understand how easy it can be to allow divisions to grow within a community and to then vilify those who are trying to disseminate uncomfortable truths like Jeremiah was.
[00:20:12] We need to be reminded of that, particularly in our divided society, and we also need to learn the importance of listening to a variety of voices - not to just the ones we agree with or the ones that agree with us.
[00:20:33] Bishop Robert Barron once said: “In a world gone wrong, which is our world, a world that is spiritually off kilter, those who come speaking and embodying the truth will be opposed. The more truthful they are, the greater the opposition.”
[00:20:52] That quote was part of a homily dealing with this passage, and I've always valued that quote because, again, it urges us to always seek out and speak the truth, even when it's difficult, even when it's uncomfortable… because authentic truth can only make us and our world better and, in turn, spark us to create positive change.
[00:21:26] That brings us to our Responsorial Psalm, which is Psalm 40. And the refrain is:
“O Lord, make haste to help me!”
And here are the verses:
“I waited patiently for the LORD; he inclined to me and heard my cry.”
“He drew me up from the desolate pit, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure.”
“He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. Many will see and fear, and put their trust in the Lord.”
“As for me, I am poor and needy; but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not tarry, O my God!”
This Psalm is an Individual Hymn of Thanksgiving, and it is one that is attributed directly to David.
[00:22:19] In this Psalm, the Psalmist (David) cries out to God asking for his mercy and aid, and is rewarded with divine intervention and deliverance.
It is also interesting to note that if you regularly pray the Liturgy of the Hours, you will be quite familiar with this week's refrain because it's part of the opening of most of the prayers throughout the day. They begin: “God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me.”
And verse 2 makes it abundantly clear why this Psalm was paired with the reading from Jeremiah. While that verse may seem appropriate for Jeremiah's situation, it was actually written before Jeremiah was ever born. The words “desolate pit” and “miry bog” here in this Psalm were more likely meant to indicate death or the realm of the dead, but they may also have meant a state of deep despair or distress. But it is amazing how closely they align with poor Jeremiah's situation.
[00:23:31] Then, in verse 3, our Psalmist (David) talks about a new song, meaning a song of praise specifically for God's deliverance. One other item of interest, verse 17, the last verse of this week's Psalm passage, appears again - almost verbatim - in Psalm 70.
[00:23:53] That takes us to our Second Reading, which is from Hebrews 12: 1-4.
“[Brothers and sisters:] [S]ince we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfector of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.”
[00:24:54] This is the second of four passages we will hear from the Letter to the Hebrews this summer.
[00:25:00] And remember, the author of this letter is unknown. There is enough Pauline theology running through Hebrews that many scripture scholars believe the author was one of Paul's followers, however, as I said last week, the author never identifies him or herself.
[00:25:20] One of the commentaries I read put it this way: “Hebrews’ doctrinal content is Paul's, even if its literary composition is the work of an unnamed collaborator who expresses Paul's teachings in a particularly elegant way.” That is one of the best summations anyone could offer about the authorship of Hebrews.
[00:25:45] Now, if you think back to last week, we were reminded of the example of faith set by Abraham. The rest of chapter 11, which we did not hear, gives further examples of other men and women of faith in the Old Testament.
[00:26:02] That setting brings us to the beginning of chapter 12, which we hear this week. So, let's listen to what the author of Hebrews has to say…
“[Brothers and sisters:] [S]ince we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses,”
[00:26:19] By those words, the author means all those holy men and women who, throughout the history we read in the Bible, had been steadfast in their faith in God… especially the examples that are found in chapter 11 - from Abel to Noah, from Abraham and Sarah to Jacob and Joseph, from Moses to Rahab, to the judges, the prophets, and the martyrs whose lives were a testament to their strong faith.
[00:26:54] “let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely.”
What the author of Hebrews means here is that we have to set aside anything that will slow us down or hinder our progress toward the kingdom of heaven.
[00:27:13] “and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,”
[00:27:18] If those words evoke in our minds the image of a sports stadium - well, that may very well have been the author's intent. Because if you think about it, sports metaphors were often utilized in Paul's letters, so his influence shines through very clearly with that metaphor.
[00:27:39] But let's explore this particular metaphor a bit further. What this suggests is that Christians are competing in front of an audience - even us - we are competing in front of an audience. That our lives of faith can be compared to a foot race… more like a marathon, truth be told.
[00:28:05] And the people watching us are this “great cloud of witnesses” - these courageous biblical figures - and they are cheering US on!
[00:28:18] They are able to encourage us because they've already completed the race themselves. Even if you're not an athlete, that's a powerful metaphor.
[00:28:31] Bishop Robert Barron wrote that in “this race that is set before us,” we have to keep two things in mind… first, the goal we are attempting to reach (which is Jesus), and second, eliminating everything that keeps us from reaching our goal.
[00:28:52] “looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,”
[00:29:01] Jesus, as the pioneer, is the firstborn from the dead - and our goal is to go wherever he leads. Jesus, as the perfecter, is the ultimate victor over sin and death - his is the example we must follow.
[00:29:25] Then the author talks about the suffering Jesus endured on the Cross - and he puts that in terms of joy, which sounds so strange to our ears. But think about that joy as Jesus’ reward for the suffering he endured in order to reach the glory prepared for him by the Father.
[00:29:53] That glory, Hebrews tells us, is the joy that he left behind when he assumed human flesh in the Incarnation AND the joy to which he returned in his transformed and glorified human flesh in the Ascension.
“despising the shame,”
We can never forget that Jesus' Death was intended to be a shameful death. The Roman Empire continued to employ crucifixion as a brutal and shameful method of execution until the 4th century.
[00:30:32] Jesus endured his Cross for the sake of all humanity - it brought him unimaginable pain, humiliation, and suffering - but he endured it for each and every one of us. He carried our sins as he suffered.
“and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.”
[00:30:57] To sit at God's right hand is the greatest of all honors. Jesus himself said that only the Father will choose who will be given that honor - but who is more deserving of such a place of honor and triumph than Jesus, who so perfectly accomplished the Father's will for the salvation of all mankind.
[00:31:23] “Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or faint hearted”
When the author of Hebrews says “him” that, of course, means Jesus, but by “sinners” the author means not just the Jewish authorities that demanded Jesus' Crucifixion… not just the Roman authorities that were too cowardly to stop it… not just the Roman soldiers who carried it out… but all sinners down through the ages, even to us.
[00:32:03] Jesus suffered on the Cross to benefit all mankind, and yet mankind's sin put him there in the first place… our sin is the reason he suffered. But he endured his Suffering out of such great love - love beyond all telling, love beyond anything we can imagine - and that love should inspire us to bear our burdens, whatever they may be, with patience, graciousness, and courage.
[00:32:45] “In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.”
[00:32:53] Meaning that there is still a long road ahead of us, that our race, our journey of faith, won't end until we die.
[00:33:05] Most modern Christians really don't have to worry about being martyred, nor have we shed our own blood for our faith… and that may never be required of us.
[00:33:19] Nevertheless, the example of Jesus should encourage us in our struggle against sin, the example of the “great cloud of witnesses” should encourage us so that we can attain the same victory they have already achieved.
[00:33:40] Our readings this week were designed to make us uncomfortable… and that's not always a bad thing. The society in which we live today is not a society based on Sacred Scripture and the teachings of Jesus in the Gospel.
[00:33:58] The divisions in our world today are vast and varied, and not all of them have come about because we've chosen to follow Jesus in opposition to those who have not. Unfortunately, some divisions have arisen because some people who claim to follow Jesus don't accept everything he teaches… and that is not authentic Christian faith, that is not real discipleship. That reality is also uncomfortable and something that we need to recognize and acknowledge.
[00:34:44] But amidst everything, Jesus is constantly working to draw us back…
back to God's truth, not the truth of any single human individual…
back to the Gospel, not cultural or political ideologies…
back to faith in Jesus above everyone and everything else, not faith in the things of this world.
That should light a fire in each and every human heart… a fire that purifies us, a fire that ignites our passion for Jesus, a fire that impels us to create positive change, and a fire that inspires us to become better people and make the world around us a better place.
That is exactly the type of fire we should all be willing to start!
[00:35:52] If you would like to reach out to me with questions or comments, send me an email at
[email protected]
Thank you for spending this time with me and until next we meet, may God shower his blessings upon you like a soft and gentle rain, and may he hold you, safe and secure, in the palm of his hand.
From His Word to Our Hearts is produced by SFS Audio Solutions.
The content of this show was assembled by me, Sally Moriarty-Flask.
Our music was composed by Jimmy Flask and is used with the permission of the composer. All rights reserved.
Information regarding references used in preparation preparing the exegesis for this podcast is available upon request.
Thank you for listening and God bless
